Prvi SAL model

Modeli jadralnih letal z metom iz roke

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Ultralajt
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Prvi SAL model

Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Odločil sem se, da si naredim SAL model.
Med modelarsko kramo me že par let čaka trup od Boštija, pa se nikakor nisem mogel odločiti za gradnjo, ker vem, da nisem sposoben narediti dovolj močnega in kvalitetnega krila.
Zato mi je na pomoč priskočil prijatelj Denny (PolecatAeroWorks) in mi poslal gotovo krilo.
Danes je paket končno prispel in razveselil sem se ob pogledu na odlično narejeno krilo.
Krilo je za začetniški SAL model (Entry level) SideWinder II.
Manjka samo še spajanje krila v sredini in montaža servomotorjev.
Krilo je kombinacija roza stirodura, steklene tkanine, karbona in kevlarja.
masa obeh polovičk skupaj je 120g.

Ko dobim fotoaparat s popravila, pa bom začel objavljati slike gradnje modela.

Še slika, kako izgleda SideWinder II.

Slika

Slika

Upam, da bo montaža stekla čimprej, saj imam v teku še nekaj drugih projektov.... #-o , da bom lahko ujel še kakšno jesensko jadranje.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=687146
Zadnjič spremenil Ultralajt, dne 05 Sep 2008, 09:25, skupaj popravljeno 1 krat.
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Tole se mi zdi pa koristno, zato bom kar semle spravil (našel na rcgroups):
Phil Barnes napisal/-a:I wish I had seen this thread sooner. Better late than never, I guess. I have the answer for Futaba transmitters. My answer will describe how to offset the flaperon servos for a DLG using a Futaba 8U or 9C or 9Csuper transmitter using Glider2flap type programming. I am sure that something similar also works with a Futaba 9Csuper and Glider2flap-c programming but I have not checked that yet and I'll bet that there are differences there.

First I will say that I agree; 3/8" up travel for ailerons and 40 degrees down travel for flaps is about right for a DLG. The more max down travel you have for flaps, the less precision you will have for camber changing and aileron movements. This is because whatever tiny amount of linkage or servo slop you have will be magnified when the servo rotation is asked to provide more total surface deflection.

As has been pointed out already. you want to set up the mechanical linkages such that the flaperons are in the middle of their travel when the servo is electronically centered. Then you use transmitter programing to "offset" the flaperon servos such that the flaperons are lined up in neutral position. That will usually mean lining up the flaperons with the fixed center tab at the middle of the wing. On most bagged wings the fixed center tab is the speed position so you would want the transmitter switches set for speed position when linining up the flaperons to the fixed center tabs.

The other aspect of the issue is that you want to maximize the total servo rotation that is available. You can do this by setting the ATV values to 140% for both flaperon servos.

Assuming that you have your DLG wing linkages set up such that the servos are electronically centered and the flaperons are dropped such that they are somewhere around the center of their total travel (maybe 15 or 20 degrees down), here are a number of methods to offset the flaperon servos to get them lined up with the wing:

Preliminaries;

A) Plug the flaperon servos into channels 1 & 7.
B) Set the model type as Glider2flap. Other programming types can work also but the following assumes glider2flap programming which I am most familiar with. This programming style is more powerful for gliders than Glider1flap or Acro types of programming.
C) Activate the Flap Trim (FLPTRM) function but set the percentage to zero for now. Don't miss this step or the Flaperon function may be doing strange and confusing things that will confuse you later. Activating the function and setting it to zero percent actually disables the function so that it will not interfere with anything.
D) Aileron Differential should be activated by default. For now, just set about 30% up and down travel for each flaperon.
E) Activate the Butterfly mix.
F) Activate the Flap-Aileron mix and set the first percentage number to 100%. This is important since some of the methods will not work unless this mix is turned on and set to 100%. Some of the methods involve sending commands to the flap servos but the flaperons are plugged into the aileron channels. Using the flap-aileron mix at 100% will send these flap servo commands on to the aileron channels also.
G) Set the the ATV values for channels 1 & 7 to 140%

Those are the important preliminary steps that may have an effect on the flaperon servo offset methods that I will now describe. I assume that you already know how to do basic programming and the task now is to offset the flaperon servos to get the flaperons lined up in the neutral position. You would choose one of the following offset methods:

Method 1) Simply use sub trims to bring the flaperons up to neutral.

This is the simplest method but can only be used for modest amounts of servo offset that would correspond to modest amounts of total down flap travel.

Method 2) Set up two PMIXES as follows;
Activate an available PMIX with OFFSET as master and with Aileron (CH1) as slave. Insert the desired offset percentage that brings the flaperon up to the desired position. Leave link OFF and leave switch position as NULL so that the mix is always on.

Activate a second PMIX with OFFSET as master and CH7 as slave to do the same offsetting of CH7.

This method uses two PMIXes and so is not likely the best method to use. I mention it mostly as an instructive aid since it is the second simplest method and will be easier to understand than the more advanced methods that follow.

Method 3) Set up a single PMIX to offset both flaperon servos as follows;
Activate one PMIX with OFFSET as master and with CH6 as slave. (NOTE: for this method, the slave channel is CH6, NOT CH1 or CH7!) Turn LINK ON and leave switch poistion as NULL. Put in the required percentage of travel that brings the flaperons up to the desired neutral position. You may need to use sub trim to equalize the flaperon positions if the two flaperons do not reach neutral at the same time.

This works because any mix that is sent to CH6 (Futaba's default flap channel) will be sent to the second flap channel because you turned the LINK feature within the PMIX ON. The mix will also be sent on to channels 1 & 7 (the aileron channels) because you have already turned on the FLAP-AILERON mix at 100%.

With a flaperon DLG, you don't actually have any flap servos plugged into channels 5 & 6 so you only see the effect on the two aileron (flaperon) servos. I use this same offsetting method to set up camber changing on switches for the purpose of setting thermal camber. The only difference there would be that I would set the desired switch that I want to activate the mix and set the desired switch direction rather than just setting switch position NULL.

Method 4) You can use the FLAP TRIM function to offset the flaperon servos. Remember that we disabled this function in step C of the preliminaries above. Now go back to the FLAP TRIM (FLPTRM) function in the advanced menu and be sure that it is activated. Turn the CH6 knob all the way to one extreme or the other. Now put a percentage number in the FLAP TRIM that brings the flaperon servos up to the desired neutral position.

This works because the FLAP TRIM function was designed by Futaba to be used to trim the position of the flap servos, or to trim the position of all four wing servos if the FLAP-AILERON mix is turned on. As you have it set up now, the FLAP TRIM function is doing exactly what the PMIXes in the previous methods were doing. It is just like a single PMIX that is set up with OFFSET as master and CH6 as slave. The only difference being that the FLAP TRIM function has a mix percentage that is variable based on the CH6 knob position and also the total travel available to the mix is variable according to the mix percentage you set within the FLPTRM function.

Again, in the case of a flaperon DLG, you don't actually have flap servos. The aileron servos will react to the FLAP TRIM function only if you have the FLAP-AILERON mix turned on (usually set to 100%).

This offset method has the advantage of using no PMIXes at all. It has the disadvantage that you must leave the CH6 knob turned all the way to an extreme and you must always remember to not move the knob.

Method 5) The following method is the most powerful but also the most confusing. It can offset both flaperon servos without using any PMIXes and it has the advantage that the CH6 knob (and the FLAP TRIM function) will be disabled when the programming is done.

Before starting, be sure that you have undone any of the other offsetting methods that you may have tried previously. Inhibit any offsetting PMIXes you may have set up and be sure that FLPTRM is activated but with the percentage set to zero percent. Now the flaperon servos should be electronocally centered and the flaperons should be near the center of their travel range again (maybe 15 to 20 degrees down). The FLAP-AILERON mix should still be activated and the first percentage number set to 100%

Here is the method:

a) Rotate the CH6 knob all the way to one extreme.

b) Be sure that FLAP TRIM is active and set a percentage that brings the flaperons up to the desired neutral position. (so far, this is the same as method 4)

c) Turn the CH6 knob to the oposite extreme. (This will drop the flaperons down twice as far as they were before we did step b.)

d) Go to the FLAP-AILERON mix and scroll over to the SECOND percentage number (the first percentage number is left at 100%). Push both data input keys simultaneously (8U) or push the data input wheel (9C). This will insert an offset percenatge in the FLAP-AILERON mix and will bring the flaperon servos up to the original starting position (where they were before we even started this offset method, flaperon servos are now electronically centered again and flaperons are dropped 15 or 20 degrees).

e) Go back to the FLPTRM function and return the percentage there to zero percent. You will see the flaperons rise to your desired neutral position as the percentage goes to zero.

The net effect is that the flaperon servos are offset as desired and the FLPTRM function (and hence the CH6 knob) are disabled.

Why does this work? Futaba's programing assumes that you will do camber changing with the CH6 knob. The Futaba programers aparently understood that, while you wanted all four wing servos to respond to camber changes, you also needed to offset the neutral position of the flap servos since you needed more down travel for flaps than you needed up travel. The flap servos would need to start their camber changing offsets from a different neutral position than the aileron servos. So they built an offset feature into the FLAP-AILERON mixer. After all, if you are doing full span camber changing, then you will need to turn on the FLAP-AILERON mixer and so that is the natural place to put the flap offset feature.

As it turns out, though, most guys don't use the CH6 knob for camber changing or for flap deployment and find it an annoyance that the CH6 knob keeps interfering with their intended flap position. The above rather bizarre procedure gets around this by getting the flap servos offset while, in the end, leaving the FLPTRM function disabled. The procedure is bizarre because it is not what Futaba intended and the only way to set the offset percentage into the FLAP-AILERON mix is to momentarilly use the FLPTRM function before disabling it again.
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Zadnjič spremenil Ultralajt, dne 06 Sep 2008, 14:13, skupaj popravljeno 1 krat.
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Glede na veliko podobnost SideWinderja in XP-3, se mi zdijo uporabni tudi tile napotki Marka Drele:


XP-3 Control Setup and Camber Flight Management by Mark Drela

* Camber Control
* Airbrake Control
* Elevator Mixing
* Aileron to Rudder Mix
* Launch Preset

To get the best performance out of your aileron XP-3, it is necessary to finely adjust the camber, or flaperon position, to the flight condition currently being flown. In addition, it is highly desirable to have the ability to set large downward flaperon deflection for airbraking. This gives precise landing control which is critical for most HLG contest tasks.

A fairly capable computer radio is necessary to program in all the required controls and mixing. I use an RD-6000.

Standard controls — aileron, elevator, rudder

Most US fliers use the Mode-2 basic control setup: Aileron and Elevator on the right stick, and Rudder on the left stick.

The following control throws work well: Aileron : -25 mm up, +15 mm down; Elevator: -20 mm up, +20 mm down; Rudder: +/- 35mm

Adjust these throws and/or add expo as you see fit.

Note: On the XP-3, 1.0 degree of flaperon deflection conveniently corresponds to 1.0 mm of trailing movement at the wing center, so the aileron movement is -25 / +15 degrees.

Camber control

A) Using a two-position switch:

1. Full reflex (-2 degrees).
Flaperon is lined up with the unhinged bit of the wing at the center, and bottom of wing is flat across the hingeline. Gives minimum drag at high speed. Used for launch, fast upwind penetration glide, and fast roaming for lift in windy conditions.
2. Moderate camber (+2 degrees).
Flaperon’s trailing edge is dropped 4mm at the wing center. This is midway between the max-L/D position and minimum-sink position. Used when circling tightly in lift, when slowly roaming for lift in low wind, and for max flat-air duration.

B) Using a three-position switch:

1. Full reflex (-2 degrees).
Same as above. Used for launch, and fast upwind penetration glide.
2. Neutral (0 degrees).
Flaperon’s trailing edge is dropped 2mm at the wing center, and top of wing is locally flat across the hingeline. This is the best-L/D position, used for roaming for lift at an intermediate speed.
3. Full camber (+3 degrees).
Flaperon’s trailing edge is dropped 5mm at the wing center. This is the minimum-sink position, used when circling tightly in lift, and when trying for maximum duration in dead air.

C) Using a slider:

Slider limits correspond to settings 1) and 3) in the three-position switch setup above.

A slider obviously gives the finest camber control, although the two-position switch setup is nearly as effective in practice and easier to manage in flight.

Whatever setup you use, it is important that the switch or slider be easily accessible when your hands are in their normal flying positions on the radio, since you will be moving it very frequently. Being able to sense its position by touching it is helpful.

Airbrake control

Large downward flap deflection for airbraking is best controlled by the left throttle stick. The endpoints should be programmed as follows:

1. Throttle stick all the way forward: No flap deflection.
2. Throttle stick all the way back: Flaps down 25-40 mm, depending on how much maximum airbraking action is wanted. It is suggested that you increase the maximum deflection until roll control starts to degrade unacceptably. Mixing lots of rudder into the aileron stick helps to maintain roll control at large flap deflections and thus allows stronger maximum braking.
3. In practice, the position of the throttle stick is continually varied to get the desired amount of airbraking as the glider comes in for the landing.

Elevator mixing

Downward flaperon deflection effectively increases the decalage which causes a pitch-up tendency. It is highly desirable to cancel this by mixing some down-elevator into the camber and airbrake controls. The proper amount of mixing depends to some extent on the chosen CG position. Start off with about 3 mm of down elevator with full airbrake deflection. Then adjust so that the glider doesn’t change pitch trim appreciably when camber or airbrakes are deployed.

Aileron to Rudder mixing

It is recommended that a hefty amount of rudder deflection be mixed into the aileron control stick. This will maintain some degree of roll control when full airbrake deflection is used, as described above. The reason is that the rudder always has consideable roll power via the generous dihedral, even when the ailerons are mushy during braking. A suggested first setting is 15 mm of rudder deflection when full aileron is applied.

Lots of rudder mixing will prevent the ability to do clean axial rolls, so you’ll want to reduce or eliminate this mixing when flying on the slope.

Launch preset

It is necessary to program one of the switches to apply some up-elevator during launch. The switch must of course be accessible when holding the radio with the non-throwing hand. I use the left gear switch on my RD-6000, and set it to actuate the elevator via a P-Mix. How much launch up-elevator is needed greatly depends on the chosen CG position — a forward CG may need little or no up-elevator, while an aft CG may need quite a lot. Start with perhaps 2 mm of up elevator.

Some outside rudder preset may also be used to get a straighter launch. The XP-3 should need little or no rudder preset if a good launch technique is used.
Ultralajt
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Takle je:
Priponke
SideWinder na Boštijevem trupu.
SideWinder na Boštijevem trupu.
SWIImod.jpg (21.1 KiB) Pogledano 12863 krat
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Danes bom nalaminiral tkanino na repne površine. Upam, da se ne bom preveč napacal :)
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Repki so gotovi.
Sledi sestavljanje trupa in lepljeneje repa na repno cevko.

Vprašanje za stare mačke, če mi lahko svetujejo!

Kaj bi bilo najboljše?:

A - pull-pull z dvema nitkama po krmilu
B - pull-spring, z eno nitko in povratno torzijsko vzmetjo v krmilu
C - push-pull, karbonska palčka 0,8mm v teflonskem bovdnu

Mitja
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belovic
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Odgovor Napisal/-a belovic »

Jaz sem zadovoljen in uporabljam rešitev B, FF-team se je dolgo časa posluževal rešitve A, sedaj ne vem kako rešujejo zadeve..
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Bošti
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Bošti »

B
Pazi edino, da bo vzmet dovolj močna, pa tudi krmila se morajo prej gladko premikat (brez vzmeti). Za vrvico pa vzemi Dynemo, ker ima najmanj raztezka.

Lp, Boštjan
"if it looks good, it will perform well"
Burt Rutan
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Hvala obema!
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Gradnja le počasi napreduje.
Sedaj je krilo zlepljeno v sredini. V lom se mi zdi kar velik...17 cm na eni strani, če je druga stran na tleh.
Baje je to kar dobro, ker model peljemo večinoma le s smerjo in poizkušamo čim manj "čarati" s krilci. Menda imajo krilca bolj pomembno funkcijo (flaperoni)in sicer da spreminjamo položaj glede na željen režim letenja.
Če preveč migaš s krilci, ustvarjaš nepotrebni upor, dokler ne letiš popolnoma koordinirano. No, to je teorija, kaj bo pokazala praksa, bom pa še videl...upam da kmalu...

Bočno sem v krilo na sredinskem spoju obdelal s špico spajkalnika in sicer tako, da sem izdolbel luknje na mestih kjer bodo izvrtine za oba vijaka, potem pa še male "stojine", predvsem med pasnicama nosilcev in pa še vmes, po celem profilu. Lepilo sem zalil v te odprtine. Uporabil sem epoksi in mikrobalone.
Spoj moram prekriti še s trakom steklene tkanine 45°.
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CINX
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Odgovor Napisal/-a CINX »

belovic napisal/-a:Jaz sem zadovoljen in uporabljam rešitev B, FF-team se je dolgo časa posluževal rešitve A, sedaj ne vem kako rešujejo zadeve..
Mitja, da ti malo olajšam zadevo. Imam namreč vrhunsko doteranega "Turbo Zaha 5", le tega sem kupil od Ivice in lahko ti zagotovim, da zadeva špila kot se zagre. Sam sem imel na Radini 1 A varijanto pa se mi B bolj dopade.
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Verjamem! Bom tudi tako naredil.
Ampak....grrr, ko me za prosti čas te dni matra....
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Intruder
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Intruder »

Mitja, ne se sekirat...prosti čas ali ne, še vedno sli edini človek, ki oresniči 99% vsem projektov v mislih, in to v krajšem času kot nekateri potrebujejo/mo za RTF modele :D Bo ko bo, pa če tudi pozimi - ne pozabi, da so pozimi odlični pogoji za nastavlanje modela :)

P.S.

Vsekakor B

Jan
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

=D> :wink:
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muha
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Odgovor Napisal/-a muha »

Imam eno vprašanje, pa upam da ne bo preveč nevmesno. Na načrtu od Marka Drela za sal: SuperGee, če sem prav zastopil načrt, ima krilo plankano z eno plastjo 48g/m2 kevlarja. Sedaj me pa zanima, če bi se to dalo nadomestiti z eno plastjo 50g/m2 steklene tkanine, ali je za isto trdnost potrebno dodati še 30g/m2 steklenko.
Če mogoče kdo zna pojasnit zakaj je izbral rajši kevlar? Ali ima veze z debelino planke, ali končne površine? Zakaj potem ne karbon (cena)?
Kdor misli da bo smetil temo z odgovori, naj mi raje piše na ZS.
Life is short.
Fly hard!!!
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Ma ne se sekirat zaradi smetenja!
Kar navalmo z vprašanji in odgovori.

Želim, da tale tema o gradnji mojega prvega SAL modela vsebuje kar največ debate in napotkov, da ne bo zgolj prikaz gradnje (itak imam fotoaparat na servisu...) ampak "zakladnica" napotkov, zbranih pod eno "streho", ki bodo lahko marsikomu pomagali, če bo temo bral sedaj ali kasneje.

Kevlar bo najbrž v uporabi spet vse bolj in bolj, predvsem, ker je veliko močnejši od steklenke, ter zadnje čase vse bolj konkurenčen karbonu...
Pa še dober "pant" se da narediti z njim.
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bray
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Odgovor Napisal/-a bray »

Mitja, bravo za nov projekt. Pa hitro ustimaj fotoaparat! ;)

No pa bom pa se jaz malo posmetil. ;)
Moj SAL (B-ray micro :) ) je tudi ze skoraj koncan. Caka me se samo leplenje krilnih polovic in pa koncna montaza repov in kril na trup oziroma palco. Imam pa vprasanje glede leplenja krilnih polovic.

Kateri epoxy je bolje uporabiti. Je boljsi tisti, ki se uporablja za laminiranje ali mogoce kar 5 minutni, ki se mi zdi da je malo bol "prozen"? Bi bilo dobro med mesanico mikrobalonov in epoxya dodati se malo bombaznih kosmicev?
I didn't know it was impossible when i did it!
http://www.sdgpslogger.com
http://bpp-blog.blogspot.com
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muha
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Odgovor Napisal/-a muha »

Pa še mogoče to: koliko g/m2 kelvar je po torziji, nategu konkurenčen g/m2 steklenki?
Če je mogoče podati kaj bolj konkreten odgovor?

80g/m2 steklenka = 50g/m2 kevlar?
Je razmerje manjše ali večje? Se mogoče eksponentno povečuje z g/m2?
Life is short.
Fly hard!!!
Ultralajt
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

bray napisal/-a:Mitja, bravo za nov projekt. Pa hitro ustimaj fotoaparat! ;)

No pa bom pa se jaz malo posmetil. ;)
Moj SAL (B-ray micro :) ) je tudi ze skoraj koncan. Caka me se samo leplenje krilnih polovic in pa koncna montaza repov in kril na trup oziroma palco. Imam pa vprasanje glede leplenja krilnih polovic.

Kateri epoxy je bolje uporabiti. Je boljsi tisti, ki se uporablja za laminiranje ali mogoce kar 5 minutni, ki se mi zdi da je malo bol "prozen"? Bi bilo dobro med mesanico mikrobalonov in epoxya dodati se malo bombaznih kosmicev?
Iz navodila za Olegov Taboo GT (glej linke na prvi strani):

Slika
Fold the wing panels back to back, tape will hold the bottoms together. Mix some 10-15 minute epoxy with microfibers and/or microballoons to the consistency of a thick mayonaise.
Slika
Apply a liberal amount of epoxy mixture to both sides of the joint. Fill the cavities between the spars and at the rear hard point. Optional: use foam plugs to close the wire channels. Alternatively you can later carve the epoxy from inside of the channels when making an exit hole for the wires. Avoid having too much epoxy around the channel openings in the latter case.
Slika
Fold the panels back to close the joint. Quickly remove the epoxy that oozed out of the joint. It is much easier to clean it before it hardens, although it is possible to do it after it is completely cured.
Potem se pa preko spoja nalaminira še 25 mm širok trak steklene tkanine 45°. Lahko se napoji s sekundnim lepilom, ki ne razjeda stirodura. (foam safe CA).. Zakaj "foam safe"? Ker je površina laminata porozna (mikro luknjice) in lahko CA vseeno zaide do stirodurja.
Ultralajt
Dr. Modelar
Prispevkov: 13473
Pridružen: 15 Nov 2004, 17:57
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

muha napisal/-a:Pa še mogoče to: koliko g/m2 kelvar je po torziji, nategu konkurenčen g/m2 steklenki?
Če je mogoče podati kaj bolj konkreten odgovor?

80g/m2 steklenka = 50g/m2 kevlar?
Je razmerje manjše ali večje? Se mogoče eksponentno povečuje z g/m2?
Nimam pojma.... lahko dober material narediš slab, če ne zmešaš smolo v pravem razmerju, če jo napacaš preveč ali premalo, če ne daš na tempranje ali ja..itd... skratka veliko je odvisno tudi od vrste smole in uporabljene tehnologije...od oka, ali zares natančno.

Snemi si Product katalog ( www.swiss-composite.ch ) kjer boš našel veliko tehničnih podatkov o vseh vrstah tkanin, smol, polnil...
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samo3d
Freak
Prispevkov: 483
Pridružen: 18 Nov 2004, 19:10
Kraj: Celje

Odgovor Napisal/-a samo3d »

@Ultralajt
Bravo. Sem vesel, da bo še en SAL na našem nebu. Hitro ga naredi, pa na travnik.
Glede povezav; Ostali FF ovci uporabljajo skoraj izključno sistem potegni fedro. Špila vsem BP, mene starega butla pa prepriča edino pul pul z ribiško predvrvico za lovljenje roparic - čimtanjšo.

@muha

Natančnega odgovora na tvoja vprašanja ne poznam, je pa Bošti naredil podobno zadevo kot Super Gee in je uporabil steklenko, mislim da 2x25g in je bilo ok, ker pa ne bi rad širil krive vere, naj sam pove točno kakšen laminat je uporabil.

LP Samo
Ultralajt
Dr. Modelar
Prispevkov: 13473
Pridružen: 15 Nov 2004, 17:57
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

@Samo,
sem videl letos kako so kmetje pridno silirali, sem pa rekel, jaz bom pa SALiral, :) ker imam malo manjšo parcelo.
Ultralajt
Dr. Modelar
Prispevkov: 13473
Pridružen: 15 Nov 2004, 17:57
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Ultralajt »

Ampak, tale video je ZAKON, če pozorno poslušaš razlago....

http://www.mvsaclub.com/mvsa/movie/hlclinic.wmv

75.5MB, 30 minut.
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Letme
Tekmovalec
Prispevkov: 449
Pridružen: 17 Nov 2004, 11:49
Kraj: Ljubljana
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Odgovor Napisal/-a Letme »

Torej je prav, da slika zamrzne?


PS: sorry saj že iščem težavo pri sebi (najbrž so codeki) ampak pač, tista izjava, če pozorno poslušaš razlago...
Zadnjič spremenil Letme, dne 11 Sep 2008, 13:12, skupaj popravljeno 1 krat.
Ko naredim letalo, začnem leteti. Potem letim in razbijem letalo. Po tem sistemu pač nikoli ne pridem do tekem :(
Odgovori

Vrni se na HLG/SAL/DLG modeli